There is a difference between Millitants and Terrorists . Make your statement clear , whether it is act of Terrorism or just another COmmunal Riot. USe proper words. This sort of low level , low intensity condemnation will not satify Indians . VEry sad that communista and leftists, Pseudo Seculars choose such words out of fear of Islamic Terrorists . We want to see the same flavour of statements you made at the time of Gujarat Riot.
Please brush up Terminologies before makinf statements , else it wil have less impact and gives wrong signals .
Admaral Ramdas is a fool , and it is shame that is is Hand in Glove with Pakistani ISI . It's a utter disgrace to all members.
Pakistan-India Peoples' Forum
for Peace & Democracy
-----------------------------
OPEN LETTER TO ADMIRAL RAMDAS
-----------------------------
Chairperson,
Pakistan-India Peoples' Forum
for Peace & Democracy
and
Retd. Chief of Indian Naval Staff
----------------------------------
To:
lramdas@vsnl.com ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(Cc: to several Indians and Indian News Media)
----------------------------------------------
Dear Admiral Ramdas:
With you as the Chairperson, the "Pakistan-India
Peoples' Forum for Peace & Democracy" held its
National Convention on April 14 and 15, 2001 at the
Center for Human Potential Development, The Church
of
North India, Nagpur. Some delegates referred to this
convention as the 5th National Convention, some as
8th. It was a great pleasure for me to attend
several
important sessions at this Convention.
Admiral Ramdas, you expressed great satisfaction in
telling us that in your recent meeting with
Pakistan's
CEO Gen.Musharruf, he always addressed you as 'Sir',
you being 'senior' to him in the Military hierarchy.
Your remark that Gen.Musharruf has stated that he
will
respect a people's verdict on J&K seemed to be aimed
at providing legitimacy to the CEO's statement and
generate trust in him.
It seemed to me that many speakers, including you,
expressed lofty ideals about peace and friendship
with
Pakistan and made recommendations that were not
based
on factual information. I therefore prepared a brief
two-page 'Summary of Important Facts about the
central
issue: Jammu and Kashmir' and circulated several
copies of the same at your National Convention. You
already have a copy of this 'Facts-Sheet', and I am
appending the 'facts' below this 'open letter' again
for your ready reference.
Many speakers at this convention, including you,
suggested - notwithstanding points [a], [b], [c],
[d],
[f], [j] and [k] in the appended 'Facts-sheet' -
that
"the people of J&K should decide their future".
Many of you, including you, notwithstanding the
point
[l] in the 'Facts-sheet', called for
demilitarization
and reduction of security forces at the border. This
demand made at your forum was peculiarly ironical in
the context of the fact that entry passes of
participants were checked by not one, but two and
sometimes three uniformed security guards of the
Church of North India before permitting entry! In
recommending demilitarization and reduction of
security at the India-Pakistan border, your forum
has
indeed done a 'one-up' even on Mahatma Gandhi who
had
supported the military use in J&K to defend the
region
when Pakistan invaded the region in October 1947.
Interestingly, at your national convention, someone
who commented that Pakistan cannot be trusted was
shouted down and he was reminded that he has pledged
as a member of your forum to 'peace and democracy'.
In
contrast, many others, you inclusive, -
notwithstanding the facts [d], [f], [k] and [l]
openly
recommended demilitarization, suspension of honors
conferred on brave soldiers (under the pretext that
this encourages war and violence), and recommended
that the "people of J&K should decide their future"
-
mindless of the fact that the true original native
people of J&K, namely the Kashmiri Hindus are now in
exile, replaced by illegal intruders violently
upsetting the demography of the region. While
recommending an annulment of India's nuclear
capability, someone amongst you pointed out that
George Fernandez himself had opposed this four years
ago, as if this fact or fiction counters India's
defense need today.
Very interestingly, some members of your forum
argued
that India exercised 'double standards' with regard
to
Junagadh, Hyderabad and J&K. Obviously, these
persons
have missed out on salient important facts of
History.
It was clearly understood that princely kingdoms,
which were well into the interior of the 'would-be'
Pakistan and India, would make a rationale choice. I
am sure you are aware of Hyderabad's geographical
location, and so also Junagadh is hundreds of
kilometers well inside India's territory. For that
matter, are you aware that the Khan of Kalat (in
Pakistan) wanted to accede to India, and India
rejected that precisely because that region would be
deep inside Pakistan's interior?
Admiral Ramdas, I was taken aback by the remarks
that
went uncontested by your members that India is
holding
on to J&K by force and that Indian military is
torturing Kashmiri civilians. On the other hand,
nobody amongst your members seemed to be aware or
concerned about the fact [d] listed below.
Admiral Ramdas, promoting friendship between the
peoples of the two countries is a very noble and
good
idea, and we all support it. Someone told me that
you
have taken a personal initiative in this matter by
marrying your daughter into a Pakistani family, but
I
have discounted this incident. I request you to
please
clarify this.
In any case, while promoting friendship, peace and
democracy in the two countries, it certainly does
not
help to discount the facts.
Admiral Ramdas, while recommending that "the people
of
J&K should decide their future", members of your
Forum, you inclusive, hinted that J&K can have a
self-sufficient economy - and in saying this you
disregarded the fact [g], listed below, and also
disregarded the situation described in [i], listed
below. Admiral Ramdas, we, as a nation, have an
obligation to take care of people of our country,
even
if they are Muslims and happen to live in J&K. They
are still our people. We cannot disregard [g] and
[i].
We must find what prevents human and material
investment in the region. Everybody agrees that
Article 370 is a hindrance to human and material
investment in J&K. While expressing your concern for
the people of J&K, it is surprising that instead of
recommending the abrogation of Article 370 to enable
investment in the State, you recommended a 'possible
azadi' to the region.
When I circulated the 'Facts-sheet', you said that
you
admitted that the information I circulated was
factual, but to defend your stand you stated that
there are 'supplementary facts', which I had
ignored.
I wrote a note to you asking you to provide me with
those 'supplementary facts', and I sent you an email
also requesting you to provide the so-called
'supplementary-facts'. I assume that you may be
very
busy holding similar meetings and promoting 'peace
and
democracy' and recommending 'demilitarization and
plebiscite in J&K', but I am still awaiting your
reply.
Admiral Ramdas, may I request you one more time to
please provide these 'supplementary facts' that you
have in mind that would justify the observations and
recommendations made at your national convention
that
(a) Indian military commits atrocities in J&K and is
holding on to J&K by force (b) A judicious solution
would emerge by asking the present (demographically
irrational) people of J&K to decide their future and
(c) Security at the India-Pakistan border should be
reduced?
With warm regards,
Yours sincerely,
P.C.Deshmukh
ATTACHED BELOW: 'Facts-Sheet about J&K'
-----------------------------------------------------------
Summary of Important Facts about the central issue:
Jammu and Kashmir'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
{Circulated at the National Convention of the
"Pakistan-India People's Forum on Peace and
Democracy"
held at the Center for Human Potential Development,
The Church of North India, Nagpur on April 14 & 15,
2001}
[a] Gulam Md. Sadiq, deputed by Sheikh Abdullah
(National Conference) made two visits to Karachi
immediately after independence to seek Pakistan's'
approval on plebiscite. Jinnah declared that "Sheikh
Abdullah must close his shop" and did not give his
consent to the plebiscite unless the National
Conference would guarentee that its outcome would be
J&K's accession to Pakistan. The National Conference
rejected Pakistan's expectations ('Dawn', Karachi,
Nov.17, 1947).
[b] There are two resolutions of the UNCIP (United
Nations Commission of India and Pakistan) dated
respectively Aug.13, 1948 and Jan.5, 1949. Whereas
the
first resolution permits for the "future status" of
the State of J&K to be determined by a plebiscite
[allowing three possibilities - (1) accession to
India
or (2) accession to Pakistan or (3) remain
independent], as demanded by Pakistan, the second
resolution provided supplementary clauses and
allowed
only for the first two possibilities. The clause
related to J&K's independence was dropped from the
UN
resolutions.
[c] Both the resolutions of the United Nations
Commission of India and Pakistan (UNCIP)
categorically
and explicitly require, as a PRECONDITION to any
consideration of the 'plebiscite', the complete
withdrawal by Pakistan of all persons who have
illegally entered the State of J&K.
[d] 14 eminent Muslims (including Ex-President
Dr.Zakir Hussain) deplored the aggression by
Pakistan
on J&K in October 1947 and they lamented that
Pakistani intruders committed atrocities on
Kashmiris
and dishonored Muslim women. In a letter dated
Aug.14,
1951 to the UN representative Dr.Graham, they said:
"It is a strange commentary on political beliefs
that
the same Muslims of Pakistan who (would) like the
Muslims of Kashmir join them invaded the State (of
J&K) in October 1947, killing and plundering Muslims
in the State and dishonoring Muslim women, all in
the
interest of what they described as liberation of the
State.
[e] The UN withdrew in 1964 from active negotiations
on J&K and "recommended bilateral talks stating that
an agreement cannot be imposed from outside" [US
State
Dept. Publication 7943, released Feb. 1966,
pp.63-70].
[f] The 'WILL OF THE PEOPLE OF J&K' has already been
expressed - adult franchise was conducted in J&K on
Feb.6, 1954, which elected the J&K's constituent
assembly. Reporters and Observers from All Over the
World reported this election as 'Free' and 'Fair'.
This assembly confirmed the Accession of J&K to
India
and enshrined this as a NON-AMENDABLE part of the
SECULAR Constitution of the J&K State by stating
that
'The State of J&K is and shall be an integral part
of
the Union of India'
[g] The J&K State's revenue must increase by a
whopping 280% at a rate enormously higher than that
for any other state and only to bring its ratio of
'gross fiscal deficit' to 'own revenue' to 49%. The
State's fiscal deficit is Rs.10.4 billion, more than
1.6 times its self-generated revenue
[
http://www.rediff.com/news/2000/dec/05arvind.htm]
[h] Narcotics money is involved as a major factor.
Recently, 11 tons of Hashish was sold to arm
terrorism
in J&K [PTI report -
http://www.rediff.com/news/2000/oct/26jk.htm]
[i] Internationally acclaimed observer Robert Kaplan
writes in his article 'The Lawless Frontier' (in
'The
Atlantic Monthly', Sept.2000) that "…the fighting in
Kashmir obscures the core issue - institutional
meltdown of Pakistan…that makes Pakistan so
fragile…"
There are strong centrifugal forces in Pakistan and
in
PoK. Chairman of the Gilgit-Baltistan Thinkers'
Forum,
Wajahat Hassan, states (Times of India,
Sept.11,2000):
"Pakistani rule cannot be spread over Gilgit and
Baltistan". The Sindh province of Pakistan has now
sought autonomy (Times of India, Sept.20, 2000).
Pakistani Muslim leaders, hurt by the dominance by
the
Punjabi-Pakistani-Muslims at the cost of the
Mohajirs,
Sindh, Baluchi, Pakhtoon people, have started
calling
the partition of 1947 a big blunder (Times of India,
Sept. 19, 2000). The important question for India is
that the centrifugal activity in the Pakistani
terrain
being strong, can India afford NOT to consolidate
the
integration of J&K in the Indian Union. A point to
consider is the vested interest of China which would
exploit the centrifugal activity to its own
advantage
at the cost of both Pakistan and India (and also at
the cost of the west's interest), creating turmoil
in
the Himalayan belt right across from Pakistan's
territory bordering Afghanistan right up to the
North-East region.
[j] The 'Pakistan-India Peoples' Forum for Peace and
Democracy' needs to examine if Pakistan, which has
NOT
had a successful democracy for any more than a few
of
its 53 years of existence, can be trusted on the
issue
of plebiscite. Gen. Pervez Musharruf has himself
overthrown a democratically elected Government,
promising elections within a year of the take-over,
which are yet to be held.
[k] The democratically elected Indian Parliament's
resolution of Feb.22, 1994 is still in force. This
parliamentary resolution, made on behalf of the
people
of India declared that:
(i) The State of Jammu & Kashmir has been, is and
shall be an integral part of India and any attempts
to
separate it from the rest of the country will be
resisted by all necessary means; (ii) India has the
will and capacity to firmly counter all designs
against its unity, sovereignty and territorial
integrity; and this resolution further demanded that
(iii) Pakistan must vacate the areas of the Indian
State of Jammu and Kashmir, which they have occupied
through aggression; and resolved that - (iv) all
attempts to interfere in the internal affairs of
India
will be met resolutely."
[l] B.Raman, Former Additional Secretary, Cabinet
Secretariat, has recently pointed out: The
Lashakar-e-Toiba, Jaisha-e-Mohammad and the Army of
Islam have declared that their agenda does not end
with Kashmir….any success in Kashmir is only toward
making Kashmir the gateway to their larger agenda of
creating two Islamic nations in India….There were
nine
times as many acts of terrorism in J&K as in the
rest
of the world ….. The arms and ammunition recovered
from the terrorists - formally supplied by Pakistan
-
would have been sufficient to equip at least one
conventional Army Division."
There is no need to use harh words as some of those who have commented on the Open Letter to Admiral Ramdas. Yet we should not let this pass for people like Admiral Ramdas, who held the highest post in the Navy do count. If not by themselves, their opinions do carry weight and that is the danger that we must guard against. Public opinion is not necessarily based on the perception of every individual but on the opinion of such public figures. This is so in India and that itself is a tragedy.
As a retired army officer who served the army for nearly 30 years with dedication, I am shocked beyond wits that a former Chief of Naval Staff would pass such comments on our army and other security forces operating in J & K. Admiral Ramdas reportedly became the Chief of Naval Staff by intrigues, which are well documented if anyone cares to read the articles in newspapers and magazines when he was made the CNS in 1990 or 1991 (I am not certain of the year). According to some stories, which were circulating at that time, Vice Admiral SK Jain was the main contender for the post of the CNS, but Admiral Ramdas was reportedly made thanks to his "connection" in the Rashtrapati Bhavan. That was the time when VP Singh was the PM and was finding it too difficult to hold on to power and he could be "manipulated" to submission. One of the "gifts" given by VP Singh to the then President reportedly was to accept the President's "recommendation" of Adm Ramdas as the CNS. Vice Adm Jain retired and went home. Admiral Ramdas also played his hands in the famous Adm Vishnu Bhagwat case when he went to court and won his case against supercession. That Admiral Bhagwat was later sacked by George Fernandes is a different matter altogether.
Admiral Ramdas was not known to be a great CNS and his tenure has nothing much to write home about except "good life". He was good at PR and a known "manipulator". He used his "connections" with those in power to his advantage to advance in his career. He had no opinion of his own and did not make any great impact on the sailors and officers. In fact, during his tenure, the Chiefs of the Army, Navy and Air Force were batch-mates from National Defence Academy and this occurrence never happened again in the history of our armed forces. Yet, the fact the three course mates were Chiefs did not make much impact either. They differed on more issues than what one normally sees in what is known as "healthy competition" among the Chiefs!
I was taught to respect elders. I still do. Yet, I wish to place on record my disillusionment with Admiral Ramdas and his pronouncements and in so doing if I am seen to have been disrespectful to Adm Ramdas, so be it. Admiral Ramdas has no business to denigrate the armed forces operating in J&K or cast aspersions on them. But Adm Ramdas is known to shoot off his mouth and, history was never a subject in which he apparently excelled. I have heard some of my civilian friends speaking of even" giving away Kashmir to Pakistan" and live in peace and harmony forever. These guys do not know what they are talking about and in any case have not served in Kashmir. Adm Ramdas is also apparently one among them. He might have been to Kashmir on vacation and pleasure trips but not to serve there as our soldiers and officers of the army are doing. Therefore, one may pardon him for making such off the cuff remarks on our army and its soldiers and earning accolades from his cronies. But one may also not forgive him because it is unbecoming of former Chief of Naval Staff to speak in public without knowing facts or being unable to understand facts.
I am for peace with Paklsitan but not on terms or the agenda that is being currently set by Paksitan. If peace with Pakistan is going to come about on the terms set by Adm Ramdas, then let us not have peace at all. I am for peace but not to get brownie points from Pakistan or get impressed by Musharraf calling Admiral Ramdas "Sir". In Tamil Nadu "Sir" is a form of address and we call anyone and everyone "Sir." Adm Ramdas is also a Tamilian (if I am not wrong?). If this is his "easy solution" for peace and friendship with Pakistan, let Adm Ramdas go and live in Pakistan with his daughter who is married to a Pakistani but let him not degrade the reputation of our army. Adm Ramdas’ pronouncements on the army "atrocities" in J & K are not supported by facts but were made with an eye to get some cheap publicity.
I seriously doubt if Adm Ramdas would ever reply to you, Prof Deshmukhji. He can’t for to do so, he must first take the trouble of knowing facts. A daunting task for a man who is so busy to bring peace with Pakistan on terms and conditions which will only please the man from across our border in the West and, who calls him "Sir" and who is held in awe by Adm Ramdas.
Covaifauji
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